A Blog on the Drawbacks of 4th Edition and MMOs

[Delmar]

link: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/4454_Dragon-Age-A-Lesson-For-MMOs.html

 

What's Wrong With MMOs? D&D 4th ed. Has Answers

Posted by Stradden Thursday August 27 2009 at 11:27AM

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I know that I?ve talked about 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons before on the site. When this new edition of the classic franchise made its debut back in May of 2008, I can remember comparing it to MMORPGs. I remember talking about how this new iteration of a classic RPG concept would help to revitalize a flagging pen and paper franchise by making it more appealing to the swath of new gamers that are flocking to today?s MMOs. I remember thinking that, all in all, the system had its problems but that in the end, it was going to be a good thing for both Dungeons and Dragons and MMOs.

 

I?ve since changed my tune. After taking a good, hard look at 4th Edition and taking in all that it has to offer, I have come to the conclusion that some of my initial impressions were right. Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition was clearly designed to be an MMO on paper. Among other things, it makes use of and actually recognizes classic MMO archetypes (healer, tank, DPS, etc), and it is designed in such a way that group play is necessary. The problem is that, at its core, Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition actually comes to represent a lot of what is wrong with today?s MMOs:

 

Looking at the rules, and playing through them, it becomes clear that they are nothing more than an elaborate combat system. All of the diverse array of skills and other rules that appeared in earlier editions have been scaled back and boiled down to ?what?s useful in combat?. Gone are the multitude of roleplaying-based skills that appeared even in the most recent edition of the game that made characters feel unique, not only in terms of what they could do in combat, but also in terms of who they were, as people.

 

In previous editions of the game, and most specifically the 3.5 rules system that came before, if I wanted my character to have spent some time learning how to be a master painter, there were rules to accommodate that. If I wanted my character to know about architecture, or engineering, there were rules for that too. Not only were there rules, but in order to have those hallmarks of individuality, in order for my character to have spent time learning how to cook, or paint, or dance, time had to be taken away from combat and combat related training. It was a conscious decision to lean toward roleplay that the old rules facilitated nicely. The new rules, not so much.

 

If, under the new rules, I want my character to be able to do any of the above mentioned activities, I can just make it up. The books and the game?s supporters will tell you that you don?t need specific rules or tools provided by the game in order to roleplay, in order to flesh out your character to a place beyond simply combat statistics.

 

While it is true that roleplay, whether in pen and paper or even in an MMO, is what you and your imagination make of it, not supporting rich characterization with official rules makes those of us who care about more than just the combat die rolls feel forgotten. Why create a rich, diverse world when the rules system that the game is built around really just hopping from epic combat to epic combat?

 

Now, I fully realize that combat is a big part of the fun, both in Dungeons and Dragons and in MMOs, but it hasn?t been strictly the combat that has kept me playing with my D&D group for the last fifteen years, it?s been the world and the characters. The combat, as cool as it often is, and as much fun as I always have doing it, I enjoy it more because I am personally invested in the fictional person that I have created and grown so that the cool combat and all of the kickass things that he can do actually have long term meaning. When the game rules don?t support both aspects, the character building and the awesome combat, I start to lose interest. That?s why I?ve ?cancelled my subscription? to D&D 4E.

 

The problem, my friends, is epidemic and doesn?t stop in the lands of Dungeons and Dragons. If 4th Edition was indeed, as I suspect, built to be an MMO on paper, its mistakes put a magnifying glass to the larger problem surrounding today?s MMOs. They are, essentially, just elaborate combat systems moving characters from one combat encounter to the next with no real time, thought, energy of God forbid, development time focused into figuring out how to make players personally invested in their characters so that they might stay invested in the games over the longer term.

 

Are hardcore combat systems disguised as roleplaying games (either online or at the table) pushing product right now? Obviously the answer is yes. Otherwise a savvy company like Hasbro?s Wizards of the Coast wouldn?t have drastically changed their D&D formula and MMOs would be more personal character-centric. Are those same systems resulting in the long-term retention of a loyal customer base? Well, I know that Wizards of the coast has already lost at least one long time customer, I can?t really speak for anyone else? And how have subscriber retention numbers been holding out for MMOs these days when compared to their initial box sales? Not so good friends, not so good.

 

I?m not a business guru, and I can barely add two numbers together properly, but I always thought the name of the game with MMOs and PnP RPGs was retention and profit over time? Maybe someone should look into that.

 

Personal Note:

 

All of that being said, if you, like me, are looking for new rules that support role-playing in the same way that 3rd edition and 3.5 D&D did, I highly recommend checking out Paizo?s new product, Pathfinder (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG). It?s a continuation of DnD the way that I, and I suspect many other long-time DnD players, like the game, with a good balance between combat and world and character building rules.

 

[Tagon]

I have heard this and many post like it a number of times and all I can think is these people need to play 4e more before they should be making these comments. The fact is with 4e they have simple given you the choice to play how you want without rules unless you have to have them.

 

I feel this editorial by Chris Youngs from wizard sums up my feelings

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/2009August

 

I experienced what might be my favorite D&D moment of all time a few weeks ago. Chris Perkins' Wednesday night game is a world of small islands and large oceans, and our low-paragon group has just acquired our first ship. We routinely have sessions in which we don't roll a single die, and one such session a few weeks back involved us attempting to hire a crew. Chris informed us, through an NPC ally, that the secret to a happy crew was a good ship's cook. When all was said and done, we managed to successfully hire the best cook in the city through a series of roleplaying encounters, wrangling him away from the service of another captain. As negotiations wrapped up, I happily leaned back in my chair and announced my satisfaction at finally hiring my own personal chef -- even if he was only around to make me midnight snacks in game. What a night!

 

So what's the point here? Well, if you're reading this, odds are good that you're a 4th Edition D&D player. If you are, odds are also good that you know folks who play other editions. And if you know folks who play other editions, odds are especially good that you've heard the complaint I'm about to address.

 

Before we go any further, let me say one thing: I don't mind if you're playing 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Edition. If you're having a great time and your campaign is fun, keep doing what you're doing. We love it that you're playing D&D -- any D&D! Personally, I wouldn't trade my 3rd Edition campaign memories for anything. If you're playing another edition because you're having fun, I'd say you're doing so for the right reason. Gaming should be about fun first and foremost, after all! That said, as a true believer in the current edition, I certainly hope all D&D players give 4th Edition a try at some point.

 

Anyway, if you're like me, you've likely heard some unfounded criticisms about 4E and been frustrated by them. A lot of misconceptions still float around in cyberspace, often spread by people who haven't even played the game. But I want to address one of the strangest here:

 

All roleplaying has been removed from D&D with 4th Edition.

 

If you're here on D&D Insider, I'll bet you've heard this before. The first time you heard it, you might have responded the same way I did: with confusion.

 

The next time you hear this myth bantered around, feel free to direct people here. Better yet, invite these folks to your next 4th Edition session and show them firsthand the roleplaying opportunities available in the game.

 

Fourth edition doesn't include some of the mundane mechanical elements of character building that 3rd Edition did. For example, certain skills (I'm looking at you Craft and Profession) enabled a player to feel like his character had some sort of grounding in the "real world" of the campaign. Odds were good that you never made a Craft or Profession check in your game, but having ranks in that skill made you feel connected to your character's background. In 4th Edition, those skills are gone. Why? Because we feel like a character's statistics don't represent the absolute truth of a character's story. That's right -- one of the reasons those skills (and other such elements from other editions) are gone is that we felt they hindered roleplaying.

 

Now if you want to say your character was a blacksmith's apprentice and knows how to make his own sword, just say so. Don't worry about feeling forced to reflect that story decision mechanically. Just write it on your character sheet. Liberating, isn't it?

 

Then you've got skill challenges. While they do include mechanical elements, they provide a structure that DMs can use to navigate complex non-combat situations. Most importantly, this is the first time the game has given DMs an easy way to reward characters for their participation. In other words, 4th Edition includes incentives to incorporate roleplaying (and other non-combat) situations into your game.

 

Beyond character background or skill challenges, this complaint makes the least sense to me because in every RPG I've played over the past twenty years and more, roleplaying was ultimately a result of the narrative brought to the table by the DM and players, not something provided by rules. That's the beauty of roleplaying, after all! D&D has always been a game of heroic fantasy, and there's nothing about those two words that requires rules of any sort.

 

 

I honestly hope that most 4th Edition players don't encounter this level of antagonism often. I also hope none of us stoop to taking potshots at the games other people play. This hobby is supposed to be fun, so even if you're tempted to rise to the bait of a hater, remember what Thumper said. If you've got a favorite roleplaying story, we'd love to hear it at dndinsider@wizards.com. If we get some good ones, we'll share them with the rest of our readers. We want to hear from you!