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MineCraft Chapter Activity


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#1 WarpedJester

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

I have gotten a lot of comments regarding this chapter hosting a MineCraft server that "no one" is playing on. I'm going to be honest, While I don't mind being a part of the conversation, I feel like I need to remind people that I am not the chapter leader, hell im not even a Knight and as such I don’t have any official say over the happenings in this chapter. That said I do want to point out a few things and maybe stir up some open conversation here among all of the active CotP people in the MineCraft Chapter.

First things first, I want to make it clear that everyone here is still interested in and still playing MineCraft. For that matter I think it is worth reminding people that in the last few months we have had a rather good upswing in Chapter membership and I would anticipate that growth to keep trending.

This "issue", as it's being pointed out to me, is that Chapter activity on the Vanilla server (being hosted by CotP) has dropped. The reason being that the majority of active players in the chapter happened to be interested in the tekkit mod pack for MineCraft and have been trying it out on another server, which I do want to point out has only happened in the past week+. While there is still active players on the Vanilla server, it seems that there are questions being raised as to whether CotP should continue to host the Vanilla MineCraft server, or any server at all for that matter. So, now it appears we are at a cross roads. At this point I want to make everyone aware of what is happening, again this is in effort to stir up some open conversation and try and resolve what feels like a brewing issue.

As I have been made to understand thing; If the majority of the MineCraft player base is not going utilize the CotP provided server then it will be shut down. If this assessment of the situation is incorrect then please correct me. But at this point this is the general understanding that has been going around.

With everything I have noted so far I would like highlight a couple points and get some feedback.

1) If we (CotP) shut down the Vanilla server where does that leave the group of people that want to remain in a vanilla environment? Unlike other chapters where the guild can simply reclass them as a "casual chapter" and continue to let people play the game with the CotP banner over there heads, when you drop support for this chapter you drop the world and everyone in it. while I do understand that MineCraft is a cost above and beyond other chapters, I hate to see the minority get punted just because the majority have decided to move to a modded version of the game. Is there any way to cut cost enough to keep the Vanilla server running or would anyone be willing to foot the cost, or personally host the CotP Vanilla server?

2) If CotP is not going to be supporting the Vanilla server due to low player activity, then would we be willing to support a Tekkit server that is very active? Again, activity and membership in CotP for the MineCraft chapter has been going up. It just seems odd to look into cutting funding when the chapter is ramping up.

I personally hope we can appeal to the majorities wishes and keep this chapter active, growing, and happy.

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#2 Viesti

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

What would be the logistics of hosting both the Classic server and the Tekkit server on CotP? It would definitely feel like a better solution to me since we'd be able to utilize resources, keep everyone closer together, and have nice perks like the web map.
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#3 WarpedJester

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

What would be the logistics of hosting both the Classic server and the Tekkit server on CotP? It would definitely feel like a better solution to me since we'd be able to utilize resources, keep everyone closer together, and have nice perks like the web map.

From what i understand, supporting one server is already stretching the budget, i just don't see how we can manage to support two.
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Chumba, Ogre Beastlord

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Mezme : Chanter

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#4 Elric

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

What would be the logistics of hosting both the Classic server and the Tekkit server on CotP? It would definitely feel like a better solution to me since we'd be able to utilize resources, keep everyone closer together, and have nice perks like the web map.


The main issue you are looking at there is cost. The current server is figured in to the COTP Operating Expenses each month, and while I don't know the exact figure it is probably along the lines of $10 a month. This is being done as a service to our members on behalf of COTP, which is financially supported by our members. Thus the question becomes, if we were to have a Tekkit-enabled Minecraft server, would the users who want that be willing to financially support the server's existence? While I am sure COTP would be able to manage it without much difficulty, any additional servers have costs that would need to be covered by those interested.

Overall, there are many of us who have devoted hours / days / weeks of playtime into the current Minecraft Server. I for one would not want to lose everything we have put into it. I do however understand what people are referring to in not paying money for a server only 1 or 2 people are on.

For those of you playing on the private Tekkit server, will you be doing back to the Vanilla server at some point?
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#5 Viesti

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:42 PM

For me the real value is being able to share in something beautiful, building and playing with awesome people. Jennytoo and I used to play on a different private server, working on building Yggdrasil, until everyone else lost interest in the game. Being on a SMP server where no one else plays is saddening.

I was on the CotP server last night, no one else was on but Jennytoo. It was reminding me of our old server a bit.

That's basically my playstyle in a nutshell: I play where people play. As long as there's enduring interest in the CotP server, I'll be there too.
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#6 jennytoo

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:49 PM

For those of you playing on the private Tekkit server, will you be doing back to the Vanilla server at some point?


I've been playing on the vanilla server while the tekkit server is down, but in the end, I'll probably play where other people are. With the tekkit server down, people haven't been playing on the vanilla server - they've been playing on two or three personally hosted servers. This has splintered the group.

Personally, I've had fun on the tekkit server for the little bit I was on before it crashed, but what I think is, whether you play technologist or alchemist, the end game gets to be little more than creative mode. I've played with both on a local instance to see how stuff works, and they both get crazy insane in some regards. I *think* I'd enjoy longer-term playing Vanilla, but I don't know.

SMP by yourself is just masturbation.
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#7 Hamunces

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:58 AM

It seems to me this issue boils down into a few simple points:

1. Can CoTP continue hosting the Minecraft server
1. a) If not would someone be willing to?
2. Would CoTP be averse to switching to a Tekkit server
3. Would the playerbase be happy with playing on one or the other
3. a) if so, which would you be willing to play on?

And finally, one that has only been slightly addressed by Warped

4. Who is the leader of the chapter?

1. I do not know the answer to, I have been hearing rumors of lack of donations lately, but I'm not the treasurer, I don't know.
1 a) I cannot host a server
2. I for one would love to see the entire population on a Tekkit server, you can play Vanilla in a Tekkit server, but you cannot play Tekkit in a Vanilla server is my reasoning.
3. If push comes to shove, I would vote for a Tekkit server over a Vanilla, hopefully MCediting our town and various landmarks into the Tekkit map. But again, push comes to shove, I would be willing to abandon them.
4. I know that Elric is the current leader of the chapter, but Elric tends to do his own thing on the server mostly, and the majority of us do stuff seperately to him. I would be happy to see Silver, Warped or Moreus as lead to be honest, as they already are in something of a leadership position IMHO

Thats honestly all I can say on the matter. Sure, I could have made it look prettier with more text, but this is basically my opinion on the current issues I see the minecraft chapter having (Apart from Futons malicious destruction of silvers server in an elaborate ruse to blame me!!)
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#8 Hamunces

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:02 AM

would the users who want that be willing to financially support the server's existence?

For those of you playing on the private Tekkit server, will you be doing back to the Vanilla server at some point?

Sorry, missed those points.

Yes. I would be willing to pay for a slot on the minecraft server if thats what it takes. We were already offering to pay for additional slots on silvers server if it comes to that. $2 a month per person seems harmless enough. And hell, if it means keeping us together, I will sponser people.

No, I cannot see myself ever going back to Vanilla. Everything from Vanilla is in Tekkit, so really all that happens by switching to Vanilla from Tekkit is I lose a tonne of awesome stuff and gain...well nothing.'

I hate to say it, but if we stop playing Tekkit I'll probably stop playing minecraft, Vanilla already had little to hold my interest anymore, but knowing the alternatives that are out there now I cannot stand to play it at all.

I would hate to be the one to break up the gang, but its like why I left everquest. I loved everyone who played, but the game was getting dull, and the owners were brain dead morons.
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#9 Demon

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

ok just made a long post and hit wrong button not typing again lol .. i agree with ham .. there can be 3 communities in tekkit (Vanilla, Techies, Alchemists) adds a whole new level to MC
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#10 Hamunces

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:18 AM

adds a whole new level to MC


Exactly. Nothing is lost from Vanilla, but everything is gained.
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#11 Elric

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

To be honest, Minecraft has always been more of a casual chapter - in that it is not a MMO where you can recruit people within the game. Obviously we want to keep it a private server and preserve all of the work our people have put into the server.

I've helped out from the admin perspective in-game, but I don't think I was ever declared Chapter Leader for Minecraft since it was again - a casual chapter. ;)

Grim currently handles everything from the overall server console perspective, so any changes to the server will need to be completed by him. I'll see if I can convince him to post here about what can be done to further the future of our Minecraft server for COTP.
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#12 Viesti

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

I'm starting to boil things down to a few questions (I'll prolly be researching some of this later) -

* Are there good hosting options out there which include root-level, SSH-type access? With this, we could set up mods (like Tekkit), update things right away when new versions become available, and have direct access to rebooting the server when needed without having to send trouble tickets and wait a week for someone else to punch in three simple commands that take two minutes to do.

* How many simultaneous players should we plan for? I think we were regularly up to 6~8 at a time on Vanilla (don't remember offhand how many we were up to on Tekkit), with no sign of things slowing down.

* I think our best bet is to roll a fresh Tekkit world using the 1.2.5 (development) version - but I really would like to import the awesome vanilla town and structure we'd worked on! I'd be willing to spend an afternoon using a tool to copy/paste from Vanilla to Tekkit.

* How much is everyone willing to chip in? I'm willing to plunk down a couple bucks a month - if a few other people are willing to do the same and we add in the amount we're currently spending on Tree Puncher, we might could upgrade to a Premium account there with Tekkit and whatnot.

Thoughts? :)
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#13 Alexander-Irok

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

I havent said much on the subject because I am not as opinionated, but I can say I enjoy playing on our minecraft server, and would be happy to see any changes made that would keep interest high from other members.
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#14 Elric

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

From what I understand, Grim is looking into it and will be contacting the necessary people for whatever changes. Please contact him for more info.
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#15 WarpedJester

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

God, there is so much good feed back that i don't even know where to begin, so I am going to try and pick off some highlights from a few peoples posts.

To answer a few questions:

Q) Would i come back to vanilla?
A) given the option, i would rather spend my time in tekkit.
As Ham pointed out, " you can play vanilla on tekkit, but you cant play tekkit on vanilla." Im with Demon in that have three factions in the game would add to the fun of it.

Q) Would people be willing to support the cost of a server?
A) In short yes, I would, however the fact of the mater is many people, while willing to shell and few buck now, can not be relied on for a fixed payment. Bottom line, If people are willing then they need to make donation to the guild like everyone else. If the guild can afford a MC server then great, if CotP cant then lets bring that up as its own topic thread when and if it happens.

My thoughts:

Guild leadership:
While I understand where Elric is coming from in terms of this being a "casual chapter", we have already shown that his chapter can and will grow even without being a MMO. We have pulled people in from other chapters, past games, RL friends, etc. I feel that having a definable leadership (guild leader/asst. Leader/officers) under active players would be beneficial. It was fun having the founders day event that Elric put together and with people willing/able to host temp servers for event, we can plan a lot of great things such as survival island, parkour games, etc.

Server support:
When it comes to CotP hosting a concern have is having more then one able body to provide support when needed. Grim is a awesome guy and while is it seems like he is online 24/7, I worry about having only one person available to resolve server related issues if they come up. As much as I hate to raise yet another question, but, do would we have the ability to have more then one admin to call on if/when their may be a issue?

One other thing i want to chime in on (and this may be a whole other post to get into) is the topic of creative vs. survival. At this point it is really sounding like the masses are ok with running on a tekkit server, again, people that want to play vanilla can. so trying to host two server (vanilla and tekkit) seems unnecessary. But one topic of conversation that has come up often is peoples disgruntlement over creative structures on a survival server. The general feeling among people is that creative and survival should be separate. My personally feeling on the topic is this: as much as i love some of the great things people build in creative mode it feels, to me, like they detract from the things people are able to make in survival. in example; While Demons tower is impressive both for is stature as well as for the fact that every block in it was mined, farmed, and fire by him or friends, its grandeur seems a bit dampened by the magnitude of Elric's Dark Castle. Again i want to be clear, I have no problem with creative works, i just personally take the side of "not on a survival server". I ring this up only because IF we start a new server at any point i would push to define it as Strictly survival or creative, but not both.

I said this a while back but I will reiterate it here, I am willing to step up and help however I can. I am willing to help out as admin or leadership if I can/are able. Being that I am not or Knight or greater im not sure what roles I can take on.

Edited by WarpedJester, 29 April 2012 - 12:17 PM.

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EQ I: Morell-Thule server
Alabs Taxiservice: Wizzy
Desstiny Wolfiefeet: Shammy
Jjet leezard: Monk
Deadranger Needsarez: Ranger
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Chumba, Ogre Beastlord

EQ II: Freeport server
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Desstiny Wolfefeet: Shammy
Jjet Leezard: Monk
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Chummba: Ogre Beastlord
Mezme : Chanter

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#16 jennytoo

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

One thought I had - is it sensible as an option for there to be a minecraft chapter, but the server used isn't hosted by CotP - CotP doesn't normally host MMOs, they're just a guild in the game; maybe treat the minecraft chapter the same way - people play together on a chapter-hosted server (which is essentially what we're doing at the moment) and CotP doesn't actually host the server, just serve as a group for the players.
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#17 Elric

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:48 AM

One thought I had - is it sensible as an option for there to be a minecraft chapter, but the server used isn't hosted by CotP - CotP doesn't normally host MMOs, they're just a guild in the game; maybe treat the minecraft chapter the same way - people play together on a chapter-hosted server (which is essentially what we're doing at the moment) and CotP doesn't actually host the server, just serve as a group for the players.


The problem you have with a private server is that you are at the mercy of one single person. As a guild we can be responsible for a server and maintain it in the best interest of the community. With a private server, you run a very powerful risk of spending hours/days/weeks/months on a server that they could randomly decide to shut down one day. If that player loses interest in Minecraft or temporarily leaves due to RL issues or another game - then they could just shut down the server and you would lose all the work you put into it.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it is risky.
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#18 Elric

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

One other thing i want to chime in on (and this may be a whole other post to get into) is the topic of creative vs. survival. At this point it is really sounding like the masses are ok with running on a tekkit server, again, people that want to play vanilla can. so trying to host two server (vanilla and tekkit) seems unnecessary. But one topic of conversation that has come up often is peoples disgruntlement over creative structures on a survival server. The general feeling among people is that creative and survival should be separate. My personally feeling on the topic is this: as much as i love some of the great things people build in creative mode it feels, to me, like they detract from the things people are able to make in survival. in example; While Demons tower is impressive both for is stature as well as for the fact that every block in it was mined, farmed, and fire by him or friends, its grandeur seems a bit dampened by the magnitude of Elric's Dark Castle. Again i want to be clear, I have no problem with creative works, i just personally take the side of "not on a survival server". I ring this up only because IF we start a new server at any point i would push to define it as Strictly survival or creative, but not both.


There is one large inconsistency here though... Tekkit in and of itself makes ALL players have creative mode. Maybe you can't fly and you have a health bar, but your inventory becomes an instant "anything you want" by just clicking on the items you are looking for on the right side of your screen. The idea you don't like of players making whatever they want (whenever they want) is just as easily done in Tekkit as "Creative Mode". You can't have Tekkit without creative mode built in.
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The whole concept that makes Survival exciting is that you don't have access to anything you did not physically pick up yourself. If a player likes Vanilla, then they will not have the same experience on a Tekkit server. Sure they can choose to not use all of the nice free items and blocks next to their inventory, but they have that same choice if they were in Creative Mode. A player who wants to play pure and unadulterated Minecraft in Survival mode can only do it on a Vanilla server.

Again, you all may choose to run a Tekkit server going forward and that is perfectly fine with me. Just please call it what it is.
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#19 Hamunces

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

but your inventory becomes an instant "anything you want" by just clicking on the items you are looking for on the right side of your screen.


Actually, unless you are OP on the server you cannot take items from the right side of the screen.

=P
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#20 Demon

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

There is one large inconsistency here though... Tekkit in and of itself makes ALL players have creative mode. Maybe you can't fly and you have a health bar, but your inventory becomes an instant "anything you want" by just clicking on the items you are looking for on the right side of your screen. The idea you don't like of players making whatever they want (whenever they want) is just as easily done in Tekkit as "Creative Mode". You can't have Tekkit without creative mode built in.
Posted Image

The whole concept that makes Survival exciting is that you don't have access to anything you did not physically pick up yourself. If a player likes Vanilla, then they will not have the same experience on a Tekkit server. Sure they can choose to not use all of the nice free items and blocks next to their inventory, but they have that same choice if they were in Creative Mode. A player who wants to play pure and unadulterated Minecraft in Survival mode can only do it on a Vanilla server.

Again, you all may choose to run a Tekkit server going forward and that is perfectly fine with me. Just please call it what it is.



Im sorry elric No disrespect but you are incorrect. The Reason that this person in the video can do i t is because they are a Op. Thus giving them complete control. However the masses of the server do not have this power and can not take anything from that side only use it as a (semi wiki) being that u can hit r hovering over a item and learn how to make it. I've run servers and had plenty of experience in using the personal interface and having it among the community is beneficial. We have the ability to transfer the world files to backup servers(using personal computers). Allowing us to continue our work while the server is down. Helping us to quickly solve problems without to much fuse. I apologize if this at all was disrespectful i just thought this point should be addressed.
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